OUCH! OUCH! OUCH! HELP! OUCH!

[cthmschler]

Hello all!
This is my fourth baby (all breast fed, six years of breastfeeding experience so far) but I still need some help. He doesn't latch on to much more than my nipple. His mouth is SO small, but he opens it wide enough when he yaawns, but even the few times I've gotten him to open wide to latch on, he seems to slip off until he's not holding much more than the nipple in his mouth. Anyways, probably because of this, my nipples are bloody and the pain is excruciating when he nurses. I've managed to stop them from cracking by using lanolin and hydro-gel breast pads, but they're not healing (he's only 6 days old, though). Any suggestions to help with the pain/speed healing? Also the engorgement is SO bad. I have to pump 2-3 times a day or my breasts are too hard for him to latch onto at all. All this is making me understand why some people give up and say they can't breastfeed! If I didn't know from past experience that this too, shall pass, I wouldn't be able to take the pain. It's THAT bad!

[Natalie]

Hi Teresa
I thought I would just write what my midwife said to me about improving sore nipples. I have only breastfed one baby so you have far more experience than me and I don't want it so sound like I'm teaching you to suck eggs! Anyway, she said that for the soreness: air your boobs as much as possible, rub breastmilk into them, you're doing the lanolin thing so that's good already. For Gabriel not staying latched on properly: Can you hold his face onto your boob so he gets the idea of what he is supposed to do? Not being forceful or anything but I did go through a time when I would have my boob in one hand and would hold Beth behind her head with the other to ensure she stayed latched on properly and was not able to pull away. I spent so long at the beginning latching and re-latching her on trying to get it right and that just made me even more sore. When I finally got her on, I used to clench my jaws and count to ten through gritted teeth! If you don't get the answers you're looking for here, you may be able to find some answers from an experienced breastfeeding counsellor (i.e. not a new one who has never had kids, never breastfed, knows the theory but nothing when it comes to the reality of b'f), phone a La leche League helpline or do a websearch on Google or something.
Natalie

[Cheri]

Teresa,
I could have probably written your post in December. I'm nursing my third & she didn't seem to be staying well latched on in the beginning. I was getting sore & bloody & it was awful! I don't know what the answer was, but I used the lanolin, and I looked through links on the Kellymom.com website with a lot of info on getting them latched on well.

Then I tried football hold and trying to get her on fast once I got her mouth open well. I had dh standing there watching us & comparing to pictures printed off the internet to see if she was latched on well. He joked that maybe he should become a professional lactation consultant in addition to opening a HG B&B It was stressful & painful & I'm not sure what made the difference, but after a few days, things improved.

I gave birth at a hospital without much breastfeeding support, so if I had been going through it for the first time, I doubt I would have continued either!!

Hope things improve, I know it is miserable!

[Laurie]

Teresa,

You poor thing!! First, have you checked for tongue-tie? http://www.parentsplace.com/babies/phys ... id=9775289

The other thing...you might try a nipple shield for a while http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/breastca ... %20shields . This will give baby something to actually latch onto and it will also protect your nipples while they heal a bit. I typically tell people not to use these without the help of a LC because shields can lead to lowered supplies if used too long. Sometimes they're hard to wean baby off of too, so use with caution.

ALso, is it only painful when he tries to nurse or all the time?

If you think it is the latch, that can be so hard to advise online. I'd seek a LC or a LLL leader in your area for more latch advise. http://www.lalecheleague.org/WebUS.html

[cthmschler]

Laurie:
I hadn't checked for tongue tie , but after reading the article you linked to, I did and that doesn't appear to be the case with Gabriel. looked for and found an LC online within 5 miles of my house, but she charges $120 for the first consultation! Am writing to LLL to look for a LL leader in my area. It hurts most when he latches on, but continues to hurt throughout the time he is nursing. Starting to heal somewhat, so it doesn't hurt as much all the time, now. And actually, both sides started to heal, but then the right side got worse again. And yes, I'm alternating the ways I hold him (cradle, football, side lying) throughout the day. Not seeming to help that side heal, though.

Natalie:
I certainly wouldn't have written if I wasn't willing to take any and all advise offered! I can't really do the airing thing, because up until a day or two ago, the engorgement was so bad that to not have the full support of a good bra was much too painful, and my breasts are so heavy that it would still be too uncomfortable to leave the nursing flaps down.

Baby Gabriel is doing SO much better than the others ever did through the night. Last night he nursed at 10:15pm, 2:00am, and 6:00am Of course, he decided about 15 minutes after we though he was done nursing that he wanted what I call the mythical "third side", so that nursing didn't end until well after 11:30, and I woke up at 4:30am with milk soaked through my bra and dripping on the sheets, so I had to get the pump and use it, so even though he's sleeping a little better each night, I'm not yet!

[Laurie]

Yeah, LCs aren't cheap...but I have always thought that if I ever needed one's advice, it's cheaper than formula for a year! lol

Have you considered thrush? http://breastfeeding.hypermart.net/thrush.html

Here are some tips for just plain painful engorgement...
http://breastfeeding.hypermart.net/engorgement.html

Tips for dry, cracked, bleeding nips...
http://breastfeeding.hypermart.net/sorenipples.html (yes, I just LOVE this LCs website! LOL)


And this link has advice for all of the above mentioned problems...
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mom/index.html

((((hugs))))) Is it getting any better yet??

[mammaclare]

Is there a way to see if any local pediatricians or family practice docs or OB's have LCs on staff?

My pedi had an LC on staff. He actually mandates at least an initial appt w/ her within 2 days of discharge! She was great, and was only my regular co-pay as they bill insurance for a doc visit since he also comes in and checks out the baby. I ended up having to quit trying after 2 weeks as I never got any supply but in that time she was great.

Maybe call around? Best of luck! Also there was a local nursing store where my doula worked as an LC...they had sliding scale costs. Or maybe you can see an LC in training who may not be as much?

Hope it all works out...may not mean much to you, but I would have done flips over engorgement and leaky boobs! In the end, I got the cracked, bleeding nipples for nothing!

[cthmschler]

Laurie
You asked if it was getting better. Sorry to take so long to reply, but I dont have much time to get to the computer with a new baby. It started to get better, then got worse again only on the left side (still trying to figure out what THAT was about). With constantly shifting nursing positions, that started to get better, but now he's getting over thrush and I have it big time. More OUCH! Right now it seems like the nursing pain will never end

[jjbeck]

Has anyone tried Dr. Newman's APNO (All-purpose nipple ointment)?
An LC just advised I try it. Just wondering how well it works. Guess I will find out. I will let you know how it goes.

[Laurie]

Jan,
YES - that stuff is AWESOME! The problem is that the pharmacy has to make it up special and it can be expensive. Many LCs suggest this home-made version of it instead...mix equal parts of these OTC meds: Polysporin, Lotrimin & 2% Hydrocortisone cream. Apply in thin layer after each feeding.

Teresa,
I went to a LLL conference a couple of years ago and went to a seminar on thrush. It's very rare for mom or baby to get thrush and the other party to be thrush-free. I would say with 99% certainty that you also have thrush. This is why it's so hard to get rid of sometimes. Mom and baby both definitely need to be treated with thrush!! Yet many drs don't know this yet. What I usually advise is calling your OB, telling them that your baby is being treated for thrush and that you need meds for it as well. This will usually get them to send you meds for it. If they won't, you can try your regular primary dr (or even your ped) if you wish.

If none of this works, there are some OTC remedies that you might try.
1. Gentian Violet, found at health food stores, like GNC. Cons: This is bright purple and will stain clothing, baby's mouth, etc...anything it comes into contact with. More info on this at: http://breastfeeding.hypermart.net/thrush.html

2. The above All purpose nipple ointment works great for thrush as well!

3. Acidophilus - this is also found at health food stores. Get the refrigerated kind, not the shelf kind. This you can take in capsules and even wet your finger and let baby suck off...it's very good at fighting thrush.

All of these remedies and more are listed on the site I listed on #1, written by a board certified LC.

And if your baby's meds are almost gone, I'd ask for another dose...it's very very important that you're both treated simultaneously.

Good luck!

[jjbeck]

I just read...again that Newman says GV is one of the better treatments in treating yeast as it treats both baby and mom. Ibought mine at the pharmacy...they keep it behind the counter thought so you have to ask.

Funny story, I heard just how messy it was. When I got it I was like how can such a small bottle be so messy. Well, the first night I used it it of course stained my clothes...then when baby nursed and she drooled...it got all over her clothes and then my bed...she sleeps w/ me. Well then I got those uncomfortable twinges you get whe you have letdown w/ a yeast infection and in the middle of the night when I was half asleep I thought I would go and apply some more. Again, I was half asleep. I am sitting on the toilet with the bottle of GV in one hand and a swab in another as I am applying it with the swab and turing my hand to get all areas...my other hand wa turning too...the hand with the bottle of GV with NO TOP ON IT! It got aaalllll over the place. My white scale is for ever purple. My wood floors turned a starnge greenish gold w/ purple highlights and are perminantly stained.
messy messy messy. But I have to say it is a pretty effective in treating the yeast.