Raynuad's phenomenon / nipple blanching

[jjbeck]

Anyone have experience with this issue? I have searched all the big BF sites and cannot seem to get good info. I know what it is and in my case is not due to improper latch...it happens while pumping and it also happens spontaneously aaaallll day long.
Would appreciate any help on this.

[HGx3]

Hey Jen. I have had experience with this all three times I have breastfed. In my case, it was caused by a severe case of thrush. I was told that since my nipples had experienced trauma, the nerve endings were now ultra sensitive thus causing the vasospasm. I was perscribed a medication for it but cannot recall the name. That is really all i can tell you.

I know what you are experiencing.....the nipples are sore and tender during nursing sessions and often in between. I describe it as feeling like "phantom" thrush. The nipp;es will often appear white temporarily after nursing or during an episode. Here is a site that I found, you may have already viewed it.
http://www.gp.org.au/cls/raynaud.html

Sorry i cant offer more. I have a wonderful doctor that specializes in breastfeeding moms. If you would like to call her, I would be happy to give you her number.

[jjbeck]

Thanks Lisa. Yeah I have viewed that site. I have tried a number of things for yeast as well. Gentian Violet, acidopholus, diflucan etc. I was told the yeast is gone but the blanching occurs more than ever. Happens when the nipple touches my bra....happens if I dont where a bra from hanging...happens when it is cold blah blah blah. I have tried compresses. BFing has been such a struggle. I occasioally get the vasospasms in my hands feet and earlobes...but not this bad. My PCP said she went through it too and nothing helped and just have as she put it procrastinate. They will stop when I stop BFing. UGH!!!! I plannned on giving breast milk for at least another year and a half. Sure hope it resolves itself before then. From the vasospasms, to the yeast infections...dry, cracked bleeding nipples, milk blisters....I am ready to just lop em off!!!

[Laurie]

Jen, did you see this link?
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mom ... ching.html

[jjbeck]

Hey Laurie. Glad to see you are still here .
Yeah, I saw that page. I have looked at LLL pages too as well as the Newman pages. I am currently talking w/ an online BF consultant. Pretty much the same info everywhere. I guess the only thing at this point, or so it seems , for the Raynauds, is the nitroglycerine or nifedipine. Both scare me.
I am really wondering though if this is the reason my milk supply is on the low side and why my nipples will not heal...you know because of inadequate blood supply to nipples. What do you think?
I have tried lanolin for healing nipples as well as sheild and soothies. The sheild sometimes increase the vasospasms and hurt my already swollen veins. The soothies I get relief from and they do help somewhat but I worry about an o/ balance of yeast with them, I mean from not allowing light to hit the nipples as well as the consant moisture...also, they kinda remind me of a petri dish
Now I have been wondering a couple of things, maybe you might know by experience,
( I dont think my supply problem is a primary problem, more likely a secondary problem due to everything else that is going on. )
Another question I have, I will post it later as a seperate issue, but in case my nipples just are not able to heal, is it at all possible for me to just pump and get a good supply going at this stage?

[Laurie]

Yes, HG hit me this weekend and I decided I needed to come back for support...but I'm staying out of ALL debates.

Anyway, yes I know several moms who've exclusively pumped for a year or longer! I can get you in touch with them if you'd like. I'm not much of a pumper mostly because my babies don't like bottles and I figure, why force them if I don't have to (I'm a SAHM)? But I'm wondering if you still have the vasospasms when you pump?

I'm guessing the supply is also a secondary effect of the Raynaud's. Perhaps when you start nursing, you're anticipating the pain...and being relaxed and calm do have something to do with maintaining an adequate supply. So yes, I bet it is related in this or other ways.

I also have an online friend who's waiting for her LC test results anyday now and I'd be happy to run your questions by her as well. I'll let you know if she has anything to add.

Petri dish...ROFLROFL

[jjbeck]

Yeah I have the vasospams when I pump...when my nipples touch fabric and when I dont have a bra on or when they get cold. Pumping is just little less painful ...less friction where the nipples are so dry and cracked and irritated. I have seen my MD says there is not much more I can do as far as treatment. I have changed my diet considerably hopin that will kick in and help with the spasms.

For a while I used the medela finger feeder instead of the bottles I still use it sometimes. I am trying to teach her to use the cup now. She is getting there.

You are right, sometimes I do anticiapte pain when I nurse and have figired that probably is not helping the supply. It helps a bit to lay down and nurse.
Yes I would love any and all info on pumping. I know the basics but any tips anyone has would be great. I use the medela hospital grade. I thikn I will feel less stressed if I know I could still offer breast milk for at least the 1st two years even if my nipples neeeever heal.
Man sorry HG hit. Hope it is not too rough for you. My IM address is available if you are having a rough day.... being able to IM a couple of the woman on the boards were incredible helpful on my worse days.

[cthmschler]

Check out http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/hel ... 181487.htm it has a transcript of a radio interview with Jane Anderson - Professor of Paediatrics at the University of California, San Francisco. It mentions the medication nifedipine being used to treat this condition. Hope it helps!

[aaronsmommy]

I was thinking of nifedipine or any calcium channel blocker too. Very few people have problems with it, what is it that you are scared of?

This may not be the kind of tip you are looking for with pumping, but it does save time! Instead of washing your horns after each pumping, just put them in the refrigerator. Put an 8oz bottle on them and pump in to the same bottles for most of the day. Wash the horns at the end of the day.

[jjbeck]

Great. Thanks Teresa. It was an intersting transcript. I have heard of the treatment of nifedipine...nitro too. I had been thinking of trying the nifedipine if things dont improve.

[jjbeck]

HI Aimee. Well I guess I am not overly frightened by the meds, but when I was pg and had the pg related high BP, noone wanted to put me on antihypertensives meds because of my history of hypotension. I cant remember if the cardio said it was for my health or the health of the baby that she advised against it. I guess I can give her a call and see what she has to say about this situation. I really wanted to give the motilum a try too, but read the warnings about arythmias I have a history of 2nd degree AV block & murmer as well. Also, I worry a bit about getting a med from another country. Do you have any thoughts about this?

[Laurie]

Another option to the motilium...actually, there are several herbs/meds that can help milk supply issues. Obviously the absolute best way to increase supply is adequate fluids (like HG, make sure your urine is clear or very light...rofl, like any of us hgers experienced that!! LOL) and nurse, nurse, nurse. But in your situation, you might benefit from some additional help. Many moms have luck with Fenugreek, an herbal supplement. http://breastfeeding.hypermart.net/supply.html Believe it or not, our old 'friend' Reglan is a milk stimulator!! ROFL

Another good article that you've probably already seen...
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/low-supply.html

I'm asking my exclusive pumping friends for their email addys (they're message board buddies) so I can forward them onto you. I'm also waiting an email from my LC friend.

[HGx3]

Hey Laurie!
I havent had a chance to congratulate you on your pregnancy, so CONGRATS!!!!!!!! I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO excited for you. I dont lurk in 1st tri so i didnt find out until I was reading your updated sig.

We are doing good here. Finally got the new carpet and wood floors in place, and we hauled off that mean ole water heater...lol.

Anyway, I miss talking with you!!! How is this pg going? Good I hope!!!!

[jjbeck]

HI Laurie. Thanks for the links. I have been on fenugreek for months now, it did help a little and I take the mothers milk tea as well as professional grd lactation drops. I have tried everything on the lists except the more frequent nursing seions. I have tried but I get so sore, the last time I tried to do this I eneded up with bloody nipples. It has been more than three months where my nipples have never completly healed.
The LC pointed out yesterday to me that the amount I am able to pump does not mean I have low supply, it is only the amount I am able to pump. Now this makes a whole lot of sense as often I still feel full and if I hand express there is milk.
Reglan....well I suppose I can take that....if I want to e a maniac
I took that years ago for my stomach and then again for HG. It makes me super crazy and gives me heart palps. I am going to call my crdio and ask what she thinks of the motilium. But this will only be if my nipples do not heal enough to be able to nurse more. I am going to give the gentian violet another go around and see if that helps the pain just in case there is still yeast o/growth. One other thing on the list from the link you sent, was to apply warmth before pumping. I think I will try that too. Maybe that will help decrease spasms. And also, I am going to order the gel pads. Right now I use the soothies, glycerin I think.
Oh, about drinking...the first couple of months I darnk and drnk and drank. It did not help but I sure peed lots. Interestingly the site said o/ drinking can have an opposite effect...makes sense now. I was probably drinking too much.
I do agree that frequent nursing sessions is most likly the best thing to do...but it is so painful with the unhealed nipples and the vasospasms. I am going to keep trying though...I will probably have it all figured out when she hits 2 years.
How you feeling today?

[Laurie]

Hi! I was beginning to think you fell off the face of the earth! LOL Good to see you again. I'll be 9wks tomorrow and the nvp really hit this past weekend. I'm on Unisom/B6 but it's not working as fabulously as last time so I'll probably start the Compazine tomorrow (my evenings are *typically* fairly ok) and see if it helps. I saw my ob this week and I've lost 3lbs in 3weeks...hmmm...guess that means only 57 left to go, eh? LOL

[HGx3]

this is going to sound so stupid, but it is the truth. I have desperatly needed to get to the eye doc.....I have been squinting to read posts and I have been lurking around, but it was entirely to difficult to try to type cause I couldnt see what I was typing!!!!!!! Anyway, I have made it to the eye doc and now have new reading glasses...lol. I still have typos, but I can see them now!!! Again, I am so excited for you, and I am glad you are doing alright so far. Hope the compazine works for you. Gosh, the thought of being 9 weeks pg again about sends me over the edge. Wouldnt want to have to do it EVER again. My body at this point vs another round of extreme hg.........anyway.

Well, if you need anything please let me know, okay?

btw, do you know anything about xenical and bf? The label says NO, but we all know how that goes. Any input would be great. I need to lose the 60lbs that you are about to drop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Laurie]

Hey Jen & Lisa...

I'm doing fairly ok. I've been wracking my brain because I knew there was something that I could tolerate, liquid wise, last pgcys but I could not remember what it was. Today it hit me...Koolaid. So I'm actually getting some liquids down now. Yay for me!! I feel a little guilty that ALL my energy is going to the kids and as soon as DH comes home, I'm asleep on the couch. Sweet thing that he is, he's keeping up on the household chores really well and having next to no time to himself. And when I thanked him today for everything he's doing and apologized for not really getting to talk to him lately, he said don't worry about it, if this goes like the last two, you'll be feeling better in a few weeks and you can help out a little more then. What a guy!

Lisa, I just got new glasses too. However, I realized I needed them when we switched to DirectTV and couldn't read their smaller print on the channel guide.

I'll look up Xenical when DD wakes from nap (Hale's book is in her room).

[HGx3]

Koolaid temporarily worked for me too. Then it was sweet tea. I do not think that xenical is in the book........thanks though..

Your dh is so sweet!. I wont even get on the subject of how mine"helped" out when I was pg, that is a SORE subject.